binders to find qualified, talented, driven young women to learn and teach and thrive and start businesses. >> well, this debate driving the narrative as -- >> this is an act of desperation. >> you needed to, like, change a story about a bipartisan group that sent you names of very accomplished women to hire because you didn't have one of your own? >> the part where he said he wanted to, you know, give women shorter hours so they could get home to cook dinner for their families. it showed a view of women that i think some people will not accept. >> this debate driving the narrative as both campaigns zero in on the women's vote in an ever-tightening race. >> when young women graduate, they should get equal pay for equal work. that should be a simple question to answer. when governor romney was asked about it, his campaign said, we'll get back to you. that shouldn't be a complicated question. >> this president has failed

america's women. they've suffered in terms of getting jobs. they've suffered in terms of falling into poverty. >> and if you thought the last debate was intense, just wait. a romney insider now saying they don't plan to hold their nominee back in round three. this after round two prompted one of romney's sons to say yesterday in a radio interview that he wanted to, quote, take a swing at america's commander in chief. all right. joining me now is new york democratic congresswoman carolyn maloney. you made headlines this year at a conference about birth control. let's replay that moment. >> what i want to know is, where are the women? when i look at this panel, i don't see one single woman representing the tens of millions of women across the country. >> now, turning back to romney's comments about binders full of

women, "the washington post" headline calling it the new big bird. when you look at that, how do you answer those who say this is a campaign distraction? >> i don't think it's a campaign distraction at all. i think that there are many contrasts in this race, but a very big contrast is the differences between president obama and governor romney on women's issues. they are literally oceans apart. >> those who call it a big bird comment, are they really lowering the significance of what that might mean to some? >> no, the main point is that president obama doesn't need a binder to tell him about qualified women. some of his closest friends, his colleagues are women. his life has been one of protecting and advancing the rights of women. the first vote that he -- actually, the first bill he signed into law was the lilly ledbetter act for fair pay for fair work. he supports the equal rights amendment. he supports lilly ledbetter, fair pay. he supports planned parenthood,

title ten, affordable care act. governor romney is bad for women. from day one he'd be bad for women because he said for the fist thing he would do is repeal the affordable care act, which has many protections for women. for the first time, women will not be discriminated against in insurance plans because they're women. they will no longer be treated as a pre-existing condition that could deny coverage for the birth of a child. >> and representative, this subject was talked about heavily this morning. let's listen. >> the women that were saying that after the second debate were turning to mitt romney, keep talking about binders. mitt romney's fine. keep talking about binders, and mitt romney will win in a landslide. >> all right. so the more discussion that is had on this subject for democrats, instead of discussing more substance, like employment of women or a real jobs plan, might this hurt democrats?

>> well, governor romney says women have been hurt by the economy. let's look at how we got this bad economy and what is his plan? his plan is the same as former governor bush. tax cuts, not investing in education, not investing in health care, not investing in ideas that move the country forward and innovation and math and science. that's the real issue. what i find interesting about binder comment is that the people around governor romney didn't bring to him any women. he had to go to a binder to find them. what does that say about the people he has around him? the main point is to look at the facts. what is the record? trying to find governor romney's position is like trying to nail jello to the wall. just on choice, if i could just tell you, when he ran for governor of massachusetts, he was pro choice. when he ran as a candidate, he said he was pro life. >> put this in context for us. when we look at one poll,

gallup, he's making up ground when it comes to the gender gap. although, when we look at our latest polls here at nbc and "the wall street journal" poll, it shows president obama still leads in three key swing states by double digits. wh what does the president need to do in the final 18 days to stop momentum that might be indicated in that gallup poll? >> we have round three this next debate. he has to bring his a-game again and come out swinging and talk about his record and what he's done. his record is outstanding. talk about the contrast. talk about what he's done to dig us out of this deep, red hole. in the economy, we've gained over 5 million private sector jobs. i think he has to talk a lot about -- and i would say, richard, in the 19 days that we have going into the election, as women begin to examine the records and look at the issues more, you will see more and more numbers climb in the so-called gender gap. there was a gallup poll that

came out that in 12 swing states, women ranked choice even over the economy and jobs. so it's a main issue for women. their rights, their opportunities, and being treated like an equal, not like a resume in a binder and being given the same opportunities that men have. president obama has been there. he's been there for women. he trusts women. women trust him. i believe that women will come out in droves to vote for our president, the one who has worked so hard to advance the rights of women and really all americans. >> congresswoman, thanks for stopping by today. >> thank you for having me. >> let's bring in our thursday political power panel. we haved dana millbank, jimmy williams, and michelle bernard. lots to on this thursday. michelle, to you first. since romney's comments at the debate, this has exploded.

there are tumblr pages, social media spoofs. does this go beyond a one-liner here? what is its real meaning to women? >> this is hugely important to women, not just because of the whole i've got to put together binders full of women, but it shows a long track record that we have seen that started long before the republican primary process where people legitimately should be questioning where women fit in terms of the republican party's brand. it's not just binders of women. it is issues that deal with equal pay, that deal with discrimination in the workplace, that it deal with contraceptives. you know, there was a state legislator, republican state legislator in wisconsin that earlier this year in dealing with issues of equal pay actually said that one could argue, and i'm quoting him here, almost verbatim, but that one could argue money is more important to men than it is women. this is a huge problem for mitt

romney. there's been so much damage to the republican party brand over the last year. quite frankly, american women are going to look at all of it in its totality and decide -- have to make a decision about who is the best president and which is the best party for american women on the economy as well as on social issues. >> dana, react to what michelle said, and i want to look at some of the real numbers in the obama and romney administrations. 36% of the obama cabinet is comprised of women. 50% of the white house staff, in fact. when romney was governor of massachusetts, he improved the hiring of women to a state high at that time of 42%. when we look at this information here, is this comment leading to an unfair portrayal of what romney really believes about women in the workplace? >> well, obama has had his own troubles in the white house regarding women. you'll remember his basketball games with the boys that caused some protest from the women on the staff. he adjusted that.

symbolic of other things of who actually has the power in the white house. but certainly when you look at it as a political matter, this president is enjoying a huge gender gap in his favor. now, the romney comment is clumsy. it makes it sound like he's talking about mail order brides or something. but it gets at the deeper issue, and this allows obama to exploit the gender gap even further. that's why it was very lucky for obama that the question came up, and it brings this, which is a strong issue for the democrats, back into play before the election. >> jimmy, you've seen both the campaigns here, certainly, as dana was intimating, a real effort within the last week or two focusing on women voters specifically. nearly every major paper that you and i have been reading in the country has a headline about that. the romney campaign trying to tap into that. they're releasing an ad this week in iowa featuring a woman

named sara who says romney doesn't oppose contraception. so talk about this all-out war for the women's vote right now. >> well, first of all, governor romney has made it clear in the debates, the gop primary that was wrapped up back in the late spring, that he would like to overturn roe v. wade. if that's the case, that is the law of the land, and that means he will do so. i have to take him at his word, to quote the president. if that's the case, that sounds to me like a war on women. why? because men can't have abortions. men do not have that ability. i hate to bring it down to such a base level, but that's a fact. if that's the case, since the settled law of the land is, in fact, and has been since 1974 roe v. wade, then, in fact, if he would like to do that -- if i were a woman, i'd be scared. i wrote about this on the night of the debates in our msnbc.com about how women are the key. women rule this country. they run this country. they run our households.

they run many of our businesses, especially small businesses. they run our schools. so if that's the case, and you're out there saying that this is what i'm going to do, despite the fact it's been the settled law of the land for almost 40 years, i would be concerned if i were a woman, especially in ohio, especially in virginia, and especially in florida. this is not a smart way to have a big tent. if you would like a big tent, you can't say, i want you in my tent, but i'm going to take away your rights. that's not a way to go about winning the presidency of the united states, in my opinion. >> we're going to get more to this later in the show. i want to shift gears a little. dana, there's a new radio interview with one of romney's sons. he's tagged as quoted as saying this about the debate this week and president obama. quote, jump out of his seat and rush down the debate stage and take a swing at him but you know you can't do that. first, because there's a lot of secret service between you and him, and because it's the nature

of the process. what's your thought on that? when you hear this, it's a very interesting take on how heated things may have become. >> you know, it may be a good idea for the romney campaign to keep the romney boys under wraps. let's recall -- >> away from microphones. >> sure, away from the microphones. they're the ones who kept -- who gave us sheamus the dog being strapped to the top of the car and have had these hot-headed comments before. it's probably not the best idea to have these guys out there as his surrogates, if they want to be controlling the message. fortunately, he came around and said, well, it's not just because the secret service was standing there and this would be a crime. in fact, maybe this is just the rough and tumble of the politics and get used to it. >> rough and tumble. michelle, there's a lot to talk about. the tempers that were flaring during the last debate. we understand romney insiders are saying, you know, they don't plan to hold romney back for

debate number three. when you look at something like that, what do you think is going to happen on monday? how contentious will this debate be? >> you know, i suspect it's going to be very contentious. there are many people who will argue, i am one of them personally, who will argue that barack obama has been incredibly strong on foreign policy since he took over. you know, there's been one foreign policy win after another. i think that for this -- for that reason alone, so many people in particular really care about foreign policy. this is a foreign policy debate. republicans, including governor romney himself, have been trying to say the president is leading from behind, that he's weak on foreign policy, that killing osama bin laden, you know, was really not that important in the scope of things when you look at libya and syria and other things. i think for that reason alone, it's going to be contentious because the president is going to have to explain very strongly how he has kept this country very, very safe since he took

office. >> if he attacks romney and romney gets on the ropes, he might react as he has in the past, very energetically. coming up shortly in about 30 minutes, we expect bill clinton, bruce springsteen stumping for the president. when that does happen, a lot of people will be watching this. the question is here, is the obama campaign now hitting a point where they feel they need to tap in to the big stars in order to try to reverse what has happened in the last week? >> no, i don't think so. i mean, listen, closers are closers. at the end of the day, if you are going to win this race, you're going win it in those three states that i just spoke about before. you're really going to win it in ohio. i've been saying this for over a year. i've only been to ohio one time in my entire 45 years on this planet. i got to be honest with you. it's not a place i like going, and i wouldn't want to go 300 times or so in a political career. that's the center, the nerve center of the country. it's middle america. >> all guns ablaze in there,

right? >> absolutely. to bring in bruce springsteen now is not a big deal, in my opinion. is he a closer? yes. will he bring more people? yes. he sort of comes across all ages groups. anyone from the baby boomers down. if springsteen were in town, i'd go see him regardless of who we were campaigning for just because it's bruce springsteen, for gosh sakes. we're now 19 days away. anything they can bring in, i'm sure romney will do the same thing on his side. >> all right. our thursday power panel. always enjoy it. thank you so much, michelle bernard, dana millback, jimmy williams. good day to all of you. coming up, the executive director that brought mitt romney those binders. she joins us. we recently saw an election where one candidate won the popular vote. the other one the electoral vote. what happens if there's an electoral tie? 269 for both. that could happen, and there's more than one very possible

scenario. plus, the dig. romney is claiming he'll create 12 million jobs if elected president. we add up the numbers in our segment called "the dig." and as we asked earlier, romney's binder full of women comment, a side show or a comment that hit a wrong nerve with women voters? let us know. we'll share your tweets later on in the hour. y for a taste of what's hot? check out the latest collection of snacks from lean cuisine. creamy spinach artichoke dip, crispy garlic chicken spring rolls. they're this season's must-have accessory. lean cuisine. be culinary chic. [ male announcer ] you start your day... love you, too. ...thinking about what's important to you -- your family...

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a quick look at the battle ground states and the headlines people are seeing there. i want to start in ohio where readers woke up to this on the front page. "hail to the chief: obama seizes momentum in speech at ohio university." former governor mitt romney returned to the same virginia area where he announced his

number two pick in august. that prompted this headline. "romney comes to town, fired up after feisty debate." and the vice president's trip to nevada landed this headline. "smiling biden on the attack." now to a scenario that experts say is not likely to happen, but if it does, and it could, it might spell really trouble on election day. a built-in flaw with the electoral college. there are a total number of 538 electoral college votes. that means you could split it right down the middle in two creating a situation of 269 each. this is how it could happen. first off, scenario, number one. if colorado, nevada, new hampshire, if those states, and virginia, go to obama, he gets to 269. romney reaches the same number if he takes florida, iowa, north carolina, ohio, and wisconsin. now, the second scenario would be if the president were only to take colorado, virginia, and

wisconsin and governor romney pulled in the other six swing states in that scenario. third, we can reach the 269 tie if president obama were to take new hampshire, ohio, and wisconsin. all right. those are the three scenarios where we could have that tie. mark murray is nbc news' senior political editor. you've been talking about these pock possibilities for a long time. if one of them does happen, what will happen? how will that be decided? >> first of all, we probably don't want that scenario to happen. otherwise, the election day that we'd all been thinking was going to pretty much end on november 6th maybe late in the morning on november 7th will be pushed back. we might not know for a very long time. here's what ends up happening. it actually goes to congress. the newly elected house of representatives actually gets to pick the president, and it's decided by state delegations. each state gets a vote.

for example, california, which state delegation overwhelmingly leads democratic, they get one vote. they'd go for barack obama. texas, whose dell graegation overwhelmingly goes republican, it would go to mitt romney. who ends up getting 26 states or a majority then ends up breaking that tie. that is one of the outcoming you would end up having in a 269-269 tie. >> has this happened before? >> it actually -- we've never seen a 269-269 tie. if you go back to 1800, and we're talking thomas jefferson versus aaron burr, we did get a tie as far as the electoral votes. one thing is worth pointing out, that it is very possible that if you do have a 269-269 tie, you actually could end up having a decisive outcome before it goes to congress because you end up having those lectors as part of the electoral college. if one says i was supposed to

cast my lot for barack obama or mitt romney, but i changed my name, all the sudden it goes from 269-269 to 268-278. >> interesting dynamic if that happens. mark murray, thank you so much for clarifying that for us. >> thank, richard. >> thank you so much. federal officials bust a plot to blow up the federal reserve building in new york city. details ahead in the news now. plus, going off a fiscal cliff. president obama prepared to play hardball with congress against legislation to block year-end tax hikes. what he's demanding, no ifs, ands, or buts. in charge of their own future. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one.

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york. governor romney will join him there tonight. both men speaking at the same dinner event. meanwhile, paul ryan is hitting two hot spots in florida. out west, vice president biden is on the trail in sin city. that's where they're going. governor romney is still catching heat, though, for the binders full of women comment, the binders he claims he requested but he didn't. i'll talk with the executive director of the group who gave him those bindsers. plus -- >> we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's why i put in a five-point plan that gets america 12 million new jobs in four years. >> ezra cline digs deep. does the matt add up? two. three. my credit card rewards are easy to remember. with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card, i earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. [ both ] 2% back on groceries. [ all ] 3% on gas! no hoops to jump through. i earn more cash back on the things i buy most.

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yesterday after he allegedly tried to detonate a fake car bomb. the ap reports that president obama was also considered a potential target. a majority of the class of 2011 is leaving college with more than just a diploma. two-thirds will graduate deep in debt, about $26,000. that's up 5% from the year before. at least four people were injured after possible tornadoes swept through parts of mississippi, tennessee, and arkansas overnight. people are dealing with power outages, damaged homes, and toppled trees. at least four more deaths tied to the meningitis outbreak bring the death toll to 19. nearly 250 people in 15 states have been sickened so far. plus, the pakistani teen shot by the taliban is showing signs of improvement. she is now reportedly moving her limbs. the extent of her brain injuries have not yet been made public. all right. two days after the gloves-off presidential debate in new york, one phrase still getting a whole lot of traction. here's a quick refresher for you. >> i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us

find folks? they brought us whole binders full of women. >> oh, yes, that binder of women candidates governor romney said he heired to help commission hi cabinet. all drawing heat. joining me is the director of the massachusetts political k cauc caucus. she sits on the executive committee of the group that made the now infamous binder. good day to you. you know, governor romney saying he commissioned the list of eligible candidates from your group, but how did romney end up with this binder? break it down for us. >> absolutely. our coalition was founded in 2002 as a bipartisan coalition of women's groups and activists across massachusetts to address the issue of the fact that we don't have enough women in appointed positions in government. in the fall of 2002, they approached both candidates in the gubernatorial race, shannon o'brien and now governor mitt

romney, expressing concerns about this issue and trying to work with our coalition. we were excited both agreed and expressed an interest in working with us. after governor romney was elected, he appointed lieutenant governor kerry heely to liaison with our coalition. >> so you put together this binder before the election results came out. he did not ask you for it. you were doing this anyway. >> yeah, i mean, we reached out to them in the fall of 2002 to get both of their commitments to working with our coalition. because we were bipartisan, you know, we weren't sure who was going to be in the corner office at that point. we started putting together -- casting a wide net and getting resumes in and vetting them so we would have qualified women we could put forward. >> the logs themselves, you were looking through them before you came on camera today. so what you're saying is he did not ask you for them, you approached them. >> you know, again, what i can say is that from what our records show, that we approached

both candidates in the fall of 2002 to request that they, you know, express their interest in working with our coalition. >> boy, who would have ever known those binders would get so attention. we look at the data coming from the romney administration there in massachusetts. now, he had gubernatorial appointments at 30% when he came into office. he raised that to 42%. when he left, it was down to 25%. what's your view? do you see him as an advocate for women in massachusetts? >> again, our major project was all about casting a wide net and bringing women into the pipeline for these senior-level positions in government. we were very happy to work with the romney administration in a collaborative process to make sure that we were putting forward very good women candidates for these positions. you know, frankly, we're very happy that we were able to be part of that process and actually get that number up to 42% of his first appointments. >> is that a yes? >> you know, also, we know the

numbers did decrease as the years went on in the romney administration. that's actually a trend that we have seen, you know, throughout that administration and others. it's something we're working on strategically to respond to that. >> all right. executive director of the massachusetts women's political caucus, also on the executive board that put together that binder that governor romney was alluding to. thank you so much. >> thank you very much. president obama may be planning to play hardball on the fiscal cliff. a new report in today's washington post says president is prepared to veto legislation to block year-end tax hikes and spending cuts. that's unless republicans cave on his request to raise taxes for the wealthiest americans. kristen welker joins us from the white house. good morning to you. this whole thing is really dependent on how the election turns out, certainly. what is the president planning to do here? >> reporter: hey, good morning, richard. my sources are telling me that you are correct. president obama does plan to veto any legislation that does

not allow the bush era tax cuts to expire for top income earners. essentially, raising taxes on top income earners. to take a step back and talk about the fiscal cliff, here's what it is. it's the expiration of the bush era tax cuts for all americans. it's also the implementation of that sequester, those cuts to defense and nondiscretionary spending. economists have said that if we go over the fiscal cliff, it could be a potential economic disaster with middle class americans paying an average of about $2,000 more in taxes. president obama is saying, look, let's let the bush era tax cuts expire for the wealthiest americans but extend them for folks making less than $250,000. that's about 98% of americans. republicans are saying no because that could ultimately wind up hurting small business owners. that's the sticking point. the problem, richard, is that these two sides have not come together in months. my sources tell me that president obama and speaker boehner haven't discussed the fiscal cliff since about july.

with this election on the horizon, there is no indication that the two sides are going to start discussing this point any time soon. of course, this is the type of gridlock americans get so frustrated with. this is one of these issues that could potentially come down to the wire. the circumstances would be disastrous if that did, face-to-face, happen. -- in fact happen. >> kristen welker, thank you so much for that great summary. today we kick off a new segment it for you. we're calling it "the dig." we'll take issues, policies, and promises made on the campaign trail and dig right down to the heart of them on both sides of the aisle. we begin with mitt romney's promise to create 12 million jobs in four years, which he spoke about, and the president rebutted at this week's debate. take a listen. >> we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's why i put in a five-point plan that gets america 12 million jnew jobs in four years. >> governor romney says he has a

five-point plan. he doesn't have a five-point plan. he has a one-point plan. that plan is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rules. >> well, only two presidents in u.s. history have created more than 12 million jobs in the course of one term. that's ronald reagan and bill clinton. in an ad released earlier this month, romney breaks down how he would get to the magic 12 million. 7 million from his tax plan, 3 million from his energy policies, and 2 million from his policies on china as well as some other moves he'd make. joining me now is ezra cline, our msnbc analyst. you've dug into these numbers. do they add up? >> they don't come near it. i should say it's really my colleague glen kessler, our fact checker, when dug into them. turns out these 7 million jobs, that comes from an analysis of a tax plan. it's not quite romney's tax plan. first, it's over ten years, not

the four years romney is promising. already we've got the time scale wrong. then it assumes the tax plan only goes into effect when the economy is already at full employment. lost in way that's happening. there's no way the economy is going to be at full employment in romney's first year no matter what. that's a very, very big effect on how many jobs you can create. an economy that has a lot of slack in the labor force, when you begin hurting industries by taking away their tax breaks, people get fired or not hired. the 3 million on energy, that's a citigroup report about energy. what's interesting about that report is it has nothing to do with any of romney's policies. it's actually about current energy trends and current policies. really, that 3 million is about obama's policies, some of which mitt romney opposes. finally, the 2 million is an estimate of the number of jobs america loses due to china's intellectual property violations. now, absolutely nobody anywhere in the entire world thinks that

simply calling china a currency manipulator, which mitt romney says he'll do, is going to make chinese businesses stop stealing american intellectual property. that's ridiculous. whether or not 12 million is more jobs than you'd expect in an obama or romney first term, it may not be if we get into a recovery, the simple fact is whatever you think of the worth of these policies, the studies and numbers the romney campaign has provided for them have nothing to do with -- are simply not credible. >> ezra, there seems to be a mix based on the data you provided. we look at recent months. the economy added an average of 150,000 jobs a month. romney's plan as well as some of the moody's prointersectijectio they'd need 250,000. that's almost current the double rate. some economists say if we want to get back to 6% unemployment, we need 350,000. romney is vowing through the course of this campaign to bring

unemployment to that number, 6%. why not promise more than 12 million? >> they don't think they can get it. there's something to be said for not wildly overpromising. i think 12 million jobs in the president's next term, whoever it is, is not unreasonable. it's what moody's expects to happen anyway. we should see a recovery pick up as consumers dig out from the debt they're in now. we're seeing positive signs in the housing market. housing starts are way up this september compared to a year ago. if that continues, housing tends to be a huge driver of recoveries. once housing gets back online, we could see big movement in the numbers. i'm not saying 12 million is beyond the realm of possibility or more if we were lucky. but to promise 350,000 or say it's about your policies, the numbers don't add up. of course, romney campaign doesn't want to repeat a mistake obama did before he came into office, which was before he really understood what the economic situation was going to look like over the next couple

of years, they made some very specific promises on where unemployment would be. the economy turned out to be much worse than they had any knowledge of. turned out they couldn't keep their promises. the romney campaign has tried to pick something they think is achievable. by doing that, they're really betting on the economy. they're not betting on policies here. >> inaugural "the dig" segment. thank you so much from "the washington post." >> thank you. immigration reform on ice? it's only come up once in one of the presidential debates. have latino voters heard enough, though, from the candidates ahead of the election? and we want to hear from you about romney's binder full of women comment. a side show or a comment that hit a wrong nerve with women voters? let me know. we'll share some of your tweets later. [ male announcer ] there are only so many foods that make kids happy. and even fewer that make moms happy too. with wholesome noodles and bite sized chicken, nothing brings you together like chicken noodle soup from campbell's.

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five days later, i had a massive heart attack. bayer aspirin was the first thing the emts gave me. now, i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. [ woman ] learn from my story. if you're a gop candidate and you're not focusing on the latino vote, you're doomed.

so says karl rove. he said, if we do with latinos what we did with african-americans, republicans and conservatives will be doomed, end quote. he goes on to say, latinos and hispanics are by and large the allies of conservatives. it took 55 minutes into the third debate before the issue of immigration was even mentioned. >> he said, i will veto the dream act. his main strategy during the republican primary was to say, we're going to encourage self-deportation. >> self-deportation says let people make their own choice. what i was saying is we're not going it round up 12 million people undocumented, illegals, and take them out of the nation. instead, let people make their own choice. >> the director of civic engagement at the national council is with us. president obama, when we look at how he's doing as well as governor romney in certain states like colorado, he is up by more than double digits.

we're looking at 44%. we look at another state, for instance, nevada, just 5% of registered voters there are undecided. 4% uncommitted in colorado. has either of the candidates, has romney said anything that will help to swing these undecideds that are out there, either in these states or nationally, from tuesday's debate? >> well, i think that basically what he did is restate the fact that he is for self-deportation, right? he said he's not going to round up people, but he hopes they'll make the choice to leave. that is self-deportation. i think, really, the case here is that where it comes to the issue of immigration and how it plays with latino voters, republicans are their own worst enemy and democrats' best friend. the fact that, as you mentioned, immigration did not come up in the first debate. it came up in the end of the second debate. i think there's a little bit that both candidates would like to avoid in this issue. let's face it, the biggest issue for latinos is jobs and the creation of jobs in the hardest

hit communities. but immigration is personal. >> they also discussed deferred action. is that not good enough for latino voters? >> i think that definitely the move by the administration to provide relief for young youth and children that are in the country in undocumented status earned them a lot of points. at the end of the day, the reality is that going forward in 2013, whoever wins, it's going to be an imperative that they move comprehensive immigration reform forward. >> unemployment higher for latinos than the national average. what do you want to hear? what do you think the kmuncommu wants to hear from both candidates? >> what is the strategy for creating jobs in the hardest hit communities? in this area, latinos are not different than any other voters. i think everybody is hungry for hearing real specificity as to how that job creation is going to look. it's interesting that everybody talks about the middle class, but the reality is that, you

know, the working class, working families, are the bulk of our population, and they're also interested in hearing what are the policies that are going to help them move to the middle class. >> has this affected enthusiasm? there's a new survey from latino decisions that is showing 69% of latino voters in colorado saying they're very enthusiastic about voting this year. 54% saying they're more enthusiastic this year than in '08. you try to put together the jobs point you just brought up and the fact they haven't heard the messages they want to. how does the enthusiasm or lack of enthusiasm for some voters in the latino community add up? there's a myth that says they are not going to go out and vote. >> well, one thing we learned in 2010, and i think this has been a con standpoistant with latino is that when we asked people in 2010 if their decision to come out to vote was to support the can ddidate of their choice, or whether it was to take a stand and for the latino community,

for the respect of the latino community, a plurality of voters said for the kmuncommunity. that tled continues now. the more they grow their political influence, political influence the more both parties have to move forward on agenda that addresses the challenges the nation is facing. >> and the romney campaign saying they need 38% of the latino vote, right now they're polling around 31. we'll see if that happens. thank you so much today. >> thank you. >> we asked, and you answered. romney's binder full of women comment, a sideshow or a xhet that hit a raw nerve? dis respectful of women considering he was approached with the binder. it's not the comment's intent. it's another romney lie. binders of research were presented to him. he did not seek it out. and hit a nerve, show a lack of understanding towards women in

the workplace. female voters won't forget this comment. keep the tweets coming. [ "the odd couple" theme playing ] humans. even when we cross our "t"s and dot our "i"s, we still run into problems -- mainly other humans. at liberty mutual insurance, we understand. that's why our auto policies come with accident forgiveness if you qualify,

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breaking now on msnbc. federal appeals court in manhattan the second in the nation to strike down the defense of marriage act as unconstitutional and appeals court in boston found doma unconstitutional earlier this year. issue expected to be decided by the supreme court. that coming in msnbc. president obama and governor mitt romney on the same roof but no boxing gloves required. time for the sidebar. two days after the showdown in new york, sparring partnered back in new york tonight, invited to speak at the annual al smith dinner. conversation expected to be light and jovial at the archdiocese charity event. remember the fund-raiser governor romney secretly taped commenting on the 47% of the country the host is planning a second attempt to do right by

romney. saturday night's event will not be at the home and will be co-hosted with several others. paul ryan executed what football fans might call a fumble on the trail. confuse two cleveland browns quarterbacks while talking to one of them. condoleezza rice alongside the congressman had to point out the flub. >> i'm a big college football fan. we wife's a fan. we've been fun watching. you really are fun to watch aosu. you got a great future ahead of you. you always have a helmet on. president obama had his chance to win over football fans in ohio yesterday, too. president made it clear he knows his football facts. >> i came here today because i heard you've got a pretty fun football team to watch

undefeated, if i'm not mistaken. a shot at the mac championship. >> that wraps up things for me. waiting on president obama in new hampshire. bill clinton and the boss in ohio. "now with alex wagner" is next. stick around. we want to improve our schools... ... what should we invest in? maybe new buildings? what about updated equipment? they can help, but recent research shows... ... nothing transforms schools like investing in advanced teacher education. let's build a strong foundation. let's invest in our teachers so they can inspire our students. let's solve this.

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because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. romney land high jinks, it's thursday, october 18th. this is "now." joining me today, msnbc political analyst and national affairs editor for "new york" magazine, john heilemann. rolling stone executive editor, eric bates and msnbc contributor and queen bee of thegrio.com, joy reid. and msnbc political analyst and executive